I like having an archive of PDF statements but the downside is that it’s usually a tedious manual process to download them. There’s so many to track - bank accounts, credit cards, investments, utilities, doctor bills, every website is different, and they are rarely batch-downloaded. So I tend to be a few months behind at any given moment until I get around to it.
Anyone found a better way to keep on top of downloading statements?
I get that people on here don't like subscriptions, and I understand why, but I've been using You Need a Budget for well over a decade, and it is probably the last subscription I'd ever give up.
The automatic import of expenses is so valuable for my family and keeping track of how much we've spent and how much we have left for the month.
We used the fixed-cost version for years beyond when it was officially supported, and it didn't have the automated import, and I don't think I could ever go back to a system that didn't. There were always a few days a month, at least, when I wasn't exactly sure where we were in our expenses.
I dont mind paying for a personal finance tool, but I feel like most of them are made for an average consumer who spends in one currency and needs budgeting. I operate in at least 3 currencies, don’t care about budgeting, and need support for tracking stocks and automatic currency conversions.
The only tools that were able to provide that were GnuCash and PTAs like beancount.
My point is, there is a big segment of people who are not served by existing personal finance tools simply because they operate in more than 1 currency, or have a slightly more complicated setup than envelope budgeting.
This is neat, but I'm not really convinced this level of granularity makes sense for personal finances? Or at least it does not for me personally. I find that simply entering all my accounts into one big excel once a month more than suffices to keep track of everything. Maybe I make a typo here and there but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things cuz I'm gonna type a new number next month anyway.
I guess it depends on the complexity of ones personal finances? The author had multiple currencies, investments, and who knows what else.
I ran a small business for a while, and I would draw a parallel to that. Once a family's finances hits the complexities of a small business, multiple assets, loans, cars, long term savings, investments, I'd say the granularity is worth it. I would certainly like to try it out.
I really enjoyed reading this, and it is inspirational as it is something I have wanted to do for a long time. And as a software developer, it really appeals to me.
How do you think it compares time-wise to using existing accounting software? Was the time investment worth it to get the control and visibility you now have?
> How do you think it compares time-wise to using existing accounting software?
Author here. I tried various consumer budgeting apps before I ended up building my own (and then going to Beancount). The main problem with every one of the apps I tried is that they don't handle investments well. 99% of my money is invested and having net worth figures which are wildly wrong because the app is only tracking bank accounts really annoyed me. That was the reason I built my own thing in the first place.
> Was the time investment worth it to get the control and visibility you now have?
Absolutely yes. I think it helps me really understand where my money is going, how I can make it work harder etc. Even though the RE part of FIRE doesn't appeal to me, the FI part does and knowing where I stand at all times has been very motivating.
Thank you for taking the time to reply - thank you!
I have question on a more personal front - please feel no obligation to reply.
What impact has having such clear visibility into your accounts had on your relationship with your wife? It feels like it would be a great catalyst for communication, trust and building things if shared finances was a key part of the relationship.
I think this part was the most inspirational - it takes a lot of courage to be that open about finances, even with partners, perhaps especially with partners.
Can somebody explain to me the advantage of double-entry bookkeeping? Is it basically just a "checksum" so it's easier to notice when something is off?
Yes, it makes it both really simple to spot mistakes and also allows you to easily audit the whole thing after the fact. In corporate contexts it's a straightforward way to make sure your bookies are also honest, just have an external firm look through the whole thing every now and then.
I must have read half a dozen intro-to-accounting books, and it never ever clicked for me. I understood the concepts, the benefits, but it just felt 'wrong'.
It wasn't wrong of course, there is so much history, ingenuity and the invention of double entry accounting, but I just couldn't get my brain to understand it.
The way the concepts settled in my head was: double entry accounting is just an excellent way of modelling a graph with nodes and edges. Accounts are nodes, transfers are edges. Every edge has a source and a destination.
For a paper ledger, each column is graph node, and each row is a graph edge.
That was enough for me to be able to learn the rest of the things I needed for interacting with the accounting world.
But I also realised that that description really only helps a very small part of the population. :D It makes things so much worse for most people.
"Hey could you help me understanding this accounting thing?"
"Sure, but first thing is, let's learn graph theory! You know who Dijkstra right?"
Whole buckets of nope.
But thats a digression from your actual question - whats the point?
It presents a rigid set of rules of recording transfers, everything has to have a from account and to account (i.e. a graph edge), every row must add up to zero.
Because of that, it makes it easy to spot any mistakes in data entry. If any of your rows dont add up to zero - then you've made a mistake.
Anyone found a better way to keep on top of downloading statements?
The automatic import of expenses is so valuable for my family and keeping track of how much we've spent and how much we have left for the month.
We used the fixed-cost version for years beyond when it was officially supported, and it didn't have the automated import, and I don't think I could ever go back to a system that didn't. There were always a few days a month, at least, when I wasn't exactly sure where we were in our expenses.
The only tools that were able to provide that were GnuCash and PTAs like beancount.
My point is, there is a big segment of people who are not served by existing personal finance tools simply because they operate in more than 1 currency, or have a slightly more complicated setup than envelope budgeting.
But, you're right, I have no need for tracking stocks, as I only check in once a year or so, and I can't imagine YNAB would manage that well.
I ran a small business for a while, and I would draw a parallel to that. Once a family's finances hits the complexities of a small business, multiple assets, loans, cars, long term savings, investments, I'd say the granularity is worth it. I would certainly like to try it out.
How do you think it compares time-wise to using existing accounting software? Was the time investment worth it to get the control and visibility you now have?
Author here. I tried various consumer budgeting apps before I ended up building my own (and then going to Beancount). The main problem with every one of the apps I tried is that they don't handle investments well. 99% of my money is invested and having net worth figures which are wildly wrong because the app is only tracking bank accounts really annoyed me. That was the reason I built my own thing in the first place.
> Was the time investment worth it to get the control and visibility you now have?
Absolutely yes. I think it helps me really understand where my money is going, how I can make it work harder etc. Even though the RE part of FIRE doesn't appeal to me, the FI part does and knowing where I stand at all times has been very motivating.
I have question on a more personal front - please feel no obligation to reply.
What impact has having such clear visibility into your accounts had on your relationship with your wife? It feels like it would be a great catalyst for communication, trust and building things if shared finances was a key part of the relationship.
I think this part was the most inspirational - it takes a lot of courage to be that open about finances, even with partners, perhaps especially with partners.
It wasn't wrong of course, there is so much history, ingenuity and the invention of double entry accounting, but I just couldn't get my brain to understand it.
The way the concepts settled in my head was: double entry accounting is just an excellent way of modelling a graph with nodes and edges. Accounts are nodes, transfers are edges. Every edge has a source and a destination.
For a paper ledger, each column is graph node, and each row is a graph edge.
That was enough for me to be able to learn the rest of the things I needed for interacting with the accounting world.
But I also realised that that description really only helps a very small part of the population. :D It makes things so much worse for most people.
"Hey could you help me understanding this accounting thing?"
"Sure, but first thing is, let's learn graph theory! You know who Dijkstra right?"
Whole buckets of nope.
But thats a digression from your actual question - whats the point?
It presents a rigid set of rules of recording transfers, everything has to have a from account and to account (i.e. a graph edge), every row must add up to zero.
Because of that, it makes it easy to spot any mistakes in data entry. If any of your rows dont add up to zero - then you've made a mistake.