What causes lightning? The answer keeps getting more interesting

(quantamagazine.org)

219 points | by Tomte 4 days ago

12 comments

  • nomilk 1 day ago
    That 7 second video of a small rocket shot into a cloud to induce a lightning strike (about half way down the article) is incredible.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BJIiX9_c_M

    Any ideas why the lightning strike appears mostly green (and momentarily purple and orange)?

  • raulparada 1 day ago
    If that new theory turns out to be somewhat right, there'll be something humbling about ancient greeks stories of Zeus sending Hephaestus bolts from ~'heaven/the cosmos' being closer to it than our modern explanations all along
  • somedrag 1 day ago
    There's a Feynman lecture abput electricity in the atmosphere that is interesting to read alongside this article:

    https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_09.html

  • wpollock 20 hours ago
    I found this article interesting but lacking. Lightning also sometimes travels from the ground up to the clouds. Storm clouds produce red sprites (there are some theories about these) and blue jets, that shoot upwards towards space. Then there's ball lightning. None of these phenomena were discussed in the article.

    I don't think scientists fully understand lightning at all. (At least, I don't!)

  • saltyoldman 22 hours ago
    Probably the same thing that causes my fingers to get a small spark when I'm walking in the grocery store holding a cart and touching the shelves.
    • varispeed 18 hours ago
      I sometimes get a spark when petting my cat
  • freehorse 1 day ago
    Tl;dr lightings may be caused by electrons/positrons from outer space hitting a cloud and initiating an "avalanche" of electrons.
    • xattt 1 day ago
      There’s a video of an EF5 tornado from the last 24-48 hours that shows continuous lightning in the background.

      There hasn’t been an increase in background cosmic rays, so likely the mechanism for lightning generation is likely a continuum in different scenarios. Cosmic rays are one, but not all.

      • themaninthedark 2 hours ago
        Volcanic eruptions are also known to have lightning in the eruption plume.
      • aaarrm 1 day ago
        I tried to find this after reading your comment and the amount of nonsense AI tornado videos is a lot to wade through. Wasn't able to find it.
      • ambicapter 11 hours ago
        Orrrrrr, there are always tons of cosmic rays of the type that create lightning hitting earth, there just aren't the conditions necessary for those rays to trigger lightning except for when there's a big storm. I imagine the clouds are a different electrical environment than a regular sky and maybe in those conditions a cosmic rays will trigger lightning. Like a gigantic bubble chamber made of our atmosphere.
    • pfdietz 1 day ago
      Cosmic rays are mostly protons, not electrons or positrons. You're mixing up to separate theories in the article.
      • nirse 1 day ago
        Well, the primary particles that hit the atmosphere are mostly protons. They cause avalanche of secondaires that are varied but mostly muons,
      • sidewndr46 1 day ago
        As others have mentioned you are correct. But Earth's atmosphere has plenty of all forms of matter. A proton can interact with mostly anything and accelerate it. So you can find high energy everything in low earth orbit.
    • nephihaha 1 day ago
      Much of the time they occur when two weather fronts of different temperatures collide with each other.
  • cinderelacinder 1 day ago
    [flagged]
  • metalman 1 day ago
    [flagged]
    • cratermoon 1 day ago
      Neutrons, neutrinos, photons, Z bosons and Higgs bosons are all neutral particles and carry no charge.
      • metalman 1 day ago
        no detectable ELECTRICAL charge, but they do contain "energy", and do attract with other particles, so I am still ABSOLUTLY totaly correct in my statement. "the universe is an energy gradient", and one of the few absolutes
  • avazhi 22 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • chermi 21 hours ago
      Explain exactly what's click bait about it? Spell it out like I'm an idiot who found the article quite good for a fairly wide audience.
      • avazhi 11 hours ago
        Sure.

        Look at the title. Imagine what you'd expect an article whose title is "What causes lightning?" to say.

        Now, here's how the article closes:

        "These features suggest that even as explanations get more comprehensive, the case of how lightning really works will keep getting reopened. “It just gets more and more bizarre the more we look,” Dwyer said. “Clearly our very simple pictures here are really incomplete.”

        So TLDR, we don't know, we know we don't know, and in fact we anticipate not knowing for quite some time. The article explicitly admits it doesn't know the answer to the question it posed in the title - no, the answer doesn't keep getting more interesting, because we don't have the answer yet.

        That's clickbait.

    • dezsiszabi 21 hours ago
      Is that the purpose of Quanta? To provide new info, new info to who? To you, specifically?

      Its purpose: https://www.quantamagazine.org/about/

      • avazhi 11 hours ago
        Quanta articles are invariably horribly written, horribly explained, and constantly do this thing where they simultaneously are pretentious and over complicate things while also belabouring simple, elementary concepts. Essentially it’s the worst of every world.

        And that’s to say nothing about how they click bait everything.

  • joshikarthikey 1 day ago
    [flagged]
    • Sharlin 1 day ago
      We don’t even understand friction. Which is one source of static charges, which we thus don’t understand well either. And static charges that somehow accumulate in the clouds cause lightning, which… I think you get the point.
    • dnnddidiej 1 day ago
      It is cool that something so seemingly ordinary is extraordinary.
    • JadeNB 1 day ago
      Not to be flip, but, depending on what "fully" means, we haven't fully understood much of anything about the real world.
    • nephihaha 1 day ago
      Never mind this kind of lightning, it gets really interesting when we start to look at ball lightning, which is very real but rarely sighted.
      • Tomte 1 day ago
        As a child I saw an acted segment about ball lightning in childrens‘ TV, following a person around the house, and had nightmares for a long time afterwards. The thing is spooky as hell.
      • sidewndr46 1 day ago
        As long as you reject the hypothesis of "ionized matter" ball lightning is completely unexplainable. If you accept that ionized matter is hot and gives off plenty of EM radiation, it's pretty simple.
    • echelon 1 day ago
      We don't even have an accurate mathematical description of how a single water molecule works.

      We have so much scientific work to do.

  • fguerraz 1 day ago
    So, nothing new?

    The cosmic ray hypothesis has been dominant for a few years now.

    This magazine…

    • JadeNB 1 day ago
      > So, nothing new?

      > The cosmic ray hypothesis has been dominant for a few years now.

      > This magazine…

      I think saying "This magazine…" as if the flaws of Quanta are well understood and agreed may need additional elaboration. If you mean that experts have known this—well, the role of Quanta is to disseminate and explain expert research to scientifically literate non-experts; it is not meant to be distributing the latest research itself.

      • avazhi 16 hours ago
        > the role of Quanta is to disseminate and explain expert research to scientifically literate non-experts; it is not meant to be distributing the latest research itself

        Quanta articles are invariably horribly written, horribly explained, and constantly do this thing whether they simultaneously are pretentious and over complicate things while also belabouring simple, elementary concepts. Essentially it’s the worst of every world.

        And that’s to say nothing about how they click bait everything.

      • paxcoder 1 day ago
        [dead]
      • fguerraz 1 day ago
        Well, let's say I just don't understand the popularity of this magazine on HN.
        • kami23 22 hours ago
          Why not explain why you think that? We can't all be perpetually online to have an opinion about a one website that shows up occasionally on this site.
          • avazhi 16 hours ago
            Not the guy you’re responding to but Quanta articles are invariably horribly written, horribly explained, and constantly do this thing whether they simultaneously are pretentious and over complicate things while also belabouring simple, elementary concepts. Essentially it’s the worst of every world.
  • darqis 1 day ago
    emdash means LLM written article