U.S. Sanctions Against the a/I Collective

(inventati.org)

134 points | by exiguus 2 hours ago

27 comments

  • iamnothere 1 hour ago
    Everyone’s missing the big picture here which is that this targeting of infrastructure providers as “terrorists” is unprecedented and concerning: https://decode39.com/16319/autistici-inventati-case-sets-a-n...

    If a radical group sets up shop on I2P, are I2P users and devs now terrorists? This is a problem.

    What about Monero users/devs? Veilid? Tox? Signal?

    • nonethewiser 1 hour ago
      Their own manifesto says they use their limited resources to support groups they align with. They aren't some neutral infrastructure provider. And even if they were that doesn't mean the US shouldn't sanction them for supporting terrorism.

      If they choose to support the PKK, which the EU, UK, and US have all deemed a terrorist organization for over 20 years, then of course the US should sanction them and they have no moral ground to stand on.

      • deaux 42 minutes ago
        > If they choose to support the PKK, which the EU, UK, and US have all deemed a terrorist organization for over 20 years, then of course the US should sanction them and they have no moral ground to stand on.

        No moral ground to stand on? Would you say that about Amazon who supports the US regime, which is in the business of bombing Iranian schoolgirls? Is that less terrorist?

        This collective of course has much more of a moral ground to stand on than indeed Amazon.

      • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
        >And even if they were that doesn't mean the US shouldn't sanction them for supporting terrorism.

        careful, if you start going after neutral infrastructure providers, that means google, amazon, microsoft, meta, and more will also need to go. i guarantee more terrorism-related content is discussed via those providers than a/i.

        we should probably also go after internet service providers, too. maybe the companies that make the fiber optics?

        (has anyone checked who is providing terrorists with electricity?)

        • MrWiffles 0 minutes ago
          > (has anyone checked who is providing terrorists with electricity?)

          Or for that matter, where they get their air?! Oh gosh golly darn, gee, if Earth is providing air to those commie bastards…

          I may not agree with their political views, but to say that the tool is the problem is equivalent to saying guns kill people instead of people that use guns. The problem isn’t the tool or their point of view, or then even speaking about it - the problem comes from humans not controlling themselves. Any actor taking any adverse or malicious action inspired by words or ideas isn’t the fault of the ideator or author, but of the actor failing in self control.

          Gotta reign this insanity in.

        • nonethewiser 50 minutes ago
          To be explicitly clear, a "neutral infrastructure provider" does not describe A/I so your scenario is hypothetical.

          >careful, if you start going after neutral infrastructure providers, that means google, amazon, microsoft, meta, and more will also need to go.

          No, because they actively respond to removal request. Open by default, supporting request for removal.

          The difference comes in when you are open by default and tell the US to fuck off when they ask you to stop supporting terror groups.

          • john_strinlai 47 minutes ago
            >To be explicitly clear, a "neutral infrastructure provider" does not describe A/I so your scenario is hypothetical.

            i am replying specifically to your comments about neutral providers (that's why i quoted the part of your comment that i did)

            >No, because they actively respond to removal request.

            there is still orders of magnitude more conversations going through the providers i mentioned, related to terrorism/csam/etc., which is simply not reported or not known. right now, meta is facilitating significantly more terrorism than a/i.

            in any case, this isn't really about terrorism. they've just overused the child-safety angle lately, and needed to drum up some anti-privacy/anti-encryption using the terrorism card.

            • nonethewiser 40 minutes ago
              > i am replying specifically to your comments about neutral providers

              Right, which is not A/I.

              > there is still orders of magnitude more conversations going through the providers i mentioned, related to terrorism/csam/etc., which is simply not reported or not known.

              So no one knows about these conversations but you know there are orders of magnitude more? Walk me through that.

              Even if that were true how would that change anything? They still comply with the US government and their mission statement isn't to empower, protect, support political activists which in practice include terrorist designated organizations.

              It's true that "terrorism" and "left wing extremism" is sometimes a boogeyman. Just not this time.

              • john_strinlai 37 minutes ago
                >So no one knows about these conversations but you know there are orders of magnitude more? Walk me through that.

                sure. whatsapp is used by literal billions of people. add in a few more billion people through facebook, instagram, gmail, outlook, amazon.

                would you like me to walk through the statistics calculations? or can you extrapolate from the billions of users? now make a guess how many people a/i has facilitated. a few thousand? a hundred thousand?

                >Even if that were true how would that change anything? They still comply with the US government and their mission statement isn't to empower, protect, support political extremists.

                because it demonstrates that the goal is not to curtail terrorism.

                • nonethewiser 33 minutes ago
                  >would you like me to walk through the statistics calculations?

                  yes

                  • john_strinlai 29 minutes ago
                    okay, great. we can do this together.

                    lets start with this: how many terrorists do you think a/i has helped?

          • deep_state_shil 42 minutes ago
            Find a fricking PKK link in noblogs that hasn't been taken down, government shill.

            How is your precious Nvidia PAC going?

            • nonethewiser 32 minutes ago
              [flagged]
              • moron129 24 minutes ago
                Could you elaborate? What do you find interesting? Is 12 min less than 15 min? What is interesting? What is a sealion? What is the CIA Sabotage Manual? Is your account older than 15 min?
        • ktm5j 35 minutes ago
          All the providers you mention here work with the US government in situations where their platforms are being used by terrorist organizations. It sounds like the a/i folks are specifically offering free services to a militant group, so that's why they're being sanctioned. I don't think your argument flies.
          • john_strinlai 34 minutes ago
            if the argument is harm reduction and reducing the overall incidence of terrorism, my argument flies.
          • moron129 32 minutes ago
            Provide working noblog links to PKK or GTFO.
        • jayGlow 50 minutes ago
          i would agree there as long as the providers are actually neutral they should be free from culpability. we shouldn't encourage providers to restrict who they serve because of potential liability, that's giving them way to much power.
      • mossTechnician 19 minutes ago
        > If they choose to support the PKK

        Did they? There's a lot of implication with that "if", and I saw someone else point out (albeit rudely) that anything that may have supported them was taken down.

      • andretti1977 39 minutes ago
        So since The International Criminal Court has issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, will US sanction him too?

        Or since ONU has declared illegal the occupation of territory in West Bank, will US sanction Israel?

        Or will the United States only sanction those who simply see things differently from them?

      • lukewarm707 55 minutes ago
        we should be careful not to assume that the eu, uk and us set a good moral standard to follow.

        you might ask who is right; the groups like google providing services to the us military, or the groups providing services to those opposing the us military.

      • jszymborski 58 minutes ago
        > Their own manifesto says they use their limited resources to support groups they align with.

        Woah, with radical statements like that, we might have to go after mutual aid groups, PACs, and churches.

        • nonethewiser 49 minutes ago
          You miss the point. It establishes they aren't neutral. Of course it's not necessarily bad to support things you agree with.
        • r3trohack3r 44 minutes ago
          I mean, I think it entirely depends on the nature of the groups they support?
      • Ar-Curunir 18 minutes ago
        Morality != legality. these anarchists have a much better moral grounding than most US tech companies which gladly support US military destruction.
      • fn-mote 45 minutes ago
        Cherry picking bad one organization doesn’t make me feel any better about this over-broad order.
        • nonethewiser 44 minutes ago
          Maybe but this thread is specifically about A/I colletive so I am certianly not cherry picking.
      • Noaidi 39 minutes ago
        > If they choose to support the PKK, which the EU, UK, and US

        But they are not choosing to support the PKK.

        They accuse it of being “a major far-left tech collective whose services are used by the most active and violent Antifa cells in the United States and across the world.”

        The far left is a terrorist group? Where are all these violent "antifa cells"?

        They labeled this groups as a terrorist organization so they could claim that anyone protesting the fascist Trump regime will easily be labeled terrorists and thrown in jail without a trial.

      • mindslight 1 hour ago
        [flagged]
        • nonethewiser 48 minutes ago
          Can you articulate this more? Are you saying the first amendment gives A/I a constitutional right not to be sanctioned?
          • mindslight 39 minutes ago
            Yes, we are talking about a communications service, one specifically focusing on political speech.

            "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

            Email, chat, websites, blogs - these are all speech! A/I's overt political statement (that you are indicting them for) points to their primary interest being to facilitate political speech - a type of speech with some of the strongest protections (that whole "assemble ... and petition the Government" thing)

            Beyond that, they're presumably a neutral conduit like every other service provider. If some users of their services are communicating to coordinate crimes, then unless A/I is getting directly involved in those conversations (with the government producing hard evidence of this), it's the exact same dynamic as every other email/hosting provider.

            • nonethewiser 12 minutes ago
              There is the absolutely perfect Supreme Court case that ruled against your theory.

              Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/561/1

              There is a law (18 U.S.C. § 2339B) that says you cant knowingly provide material support for designated foreign terrorist organizations. A law firm wanted to provide financial support and legal services to some, including the PKK (the same group A/I was accused of helping). They argued the federal law violated their first amendment rights.

              The court concludes that the first amendment doesn't protect your ability to provide material support including services and communication equipment and the law still stands today.

    • dpc050505 21 minutes ago
      Monero is delisted from exchanges in Canada because the anonymity makes it impossible to comply with anti-money laundering regulations. It makes it a lot harder to acquire the coins or to turn them into liquidity. The government is also going hard against encryption with law c-22, which will make Signal stop providing service in the country.
    • tptacek 55 minutes ago
      If you have real operational security concerns, your provider shouldn't know anything about you; should in fact have bilateral shielding between themselves and you to prevent either counterparty from learning stuff. That's how Signal works.
    • kraken_cult 1 hour ago
      Isn't it just as likely they are using facebook, instagram, and tiktok?
      • nonethewiser 1 hour ago
        Meta and TikTokUSDS let anyone in but they will actively remove stuff like this by request:

            The anarchist cell responsible for sabotaging the Transalpine Pipeline (TAL) in March 2026, which temporarily halted crude oil flows to Austria, Germany, and the Czech Republic, relied on A/I Collective tools and services to claim responsibility for the attack and publish official communiqués, as well as to disseminate a manifesto calling for additional attacks on critical infrastructure and referring adherents to another A/I Collective platform, which provides detailed sabotage manuals as well as maps of vulnerable critical infrastructure across North America.
        
        https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sb0616/

        A/I was never a politically neutral host, not that that would save them from sanctions: https://www.wewillfreeus.org/the-server-called-paranoia-defe...

        • beej71 12 minutes ago
          And political neutrality isn't going to save anyone. Political alignment with the US government is what they're after.
        • bjourne 5 minutes ago
          Are we going after free speech now?
  • VCFundedGenYer 3 minutes ago
    I'm bothered by their incorrect use of the root word 'autistic' - That's just a poor choice on their part. Very bad look.
  • exiguus 2 hours ago
    There is also an article on we will free us [1] if you want to dive deeper into that rabbit hole.

    [1] https://www.wewillfreeus.org/the-server-called-paranoia-defe...

    • badsectoracula 1 hour ago
      The article is quite long, but these two give a brief idea of what is going on:

      a) According to that article, what it seems they are about:

      > Its manifesto describes the project in explicitly political terms. A/I is antifascist, anti-capitalist and antimilitarist. It promotes free software, encryption, pseudonymity and the independent circulation of knowledge and cultural work. It reserves its limited, volunteer-run resources for people and projects broadly compatible with those principles rather than businesses, political parties, organized religions or institutions already possessing the means to make themselves heard.

      b) And the issue U.S. has with them:

      > The United States alleges that A/I supplies specialized digital architecture, encrypted communications and hosting to antifascist groups and other radical movements, including organizations already designated by the United States.

      • OKRainbowKid 5 minutes ago
        So anti-fascism ist deemed an extreme movement by the US government? What does that say about them?
      • nonethewiser 1 hour ago
        [flagged]
        • hexator 1 hour ago
          Is there any indication or proof that they are providing services to PKK? Equating supporting protest organizers in the west with supporting an armed terrorist group is laughable and dangerous.
          • 32aGh 47 minutes ago
            If you search for "noblogs pkk" you find a handful, literally less than 10, of pro PKK links, all of which have been taken down.

            Could have been a false flag to discredit antifa. What happened to safe harbor?

    • AndrewKemendo 1 hour ago
      Seems like this should be a/the top level link
  • Avicebron 2 hours ago
    I clicked around a bit, read the manifesto, I still have no idea what these people do. I guess they claim to have been around for a while, but a bunch of the links don't work and the manifesto has definitely been updated to reflect 2026 opinions.

    What is this?

    • NoboruWataya 1 hour ago
      The "About" page seems fairly clear:

      > A/I was born over 20 years ago to provide internet support (through website hosting, e-mail accounts, mailing lists, chat, blogs, and much more) to activists and collectives coming from the world of grassroot and social movements.

    • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
      i thought the page says it pretty clearly.

      they are a group of people providing services to activists. services include email, web hosting, chat, and other anonymity services. (see https://www.inventati.org/services/)

    • pietervdvn 1 hour ago
      They host blogs and email used by many activists.
    • gwbas1c 1 hour ago
      Did you click on https://www.inventati.org/about ? (I also tried reading the manifesto first.)

      From it:

      > We support individuals, collectives, communities and groups whose political and social activities fit within this worldview and who share with us some fundamental principles: anti-fascism, anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti-militarism

      I suspect they have some "not mainstream" political views; although I think understanding what these views are requires more in-depth reading of the blogs that they host.

    • jpcfl 1 hour ago
      It is intentionally vague. From the State Dept:

      > The A/I Collective exclusively offers its tools and services to radical left-wing actors and manually vets all potential users for ideological affinity before granting them access to its infrastructure.

    • napolux 1 hour ago
      Autistici/Inventati is an Italian collective, active since around 2001, that runs free digital services for activists, grassroots groups and anyone who wants to communicate without being profiled.

      It provides email accounts, mailing lists, blogs, websites, chat and VPN access.

      • nonethewiser 1 hour ago
        Anyone? Like the PKK which The EU, UK, and US have labeled a terrorist organization ~20 years ago because they've killed thousands in Iraq, Turkey, and Syria since 1984?
        • teiferer 1 hour ago
          Do the US then also sanction themselves? Cause the numer of people they have killed in that region of the globe since 1984 easily exceeds that number by orders of magnitude.

          And the platform hasn't done any killing. They merely provide email etc. Are we going to sanction road builders too because a murderer has driven on their road since 1984?

        • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
          that would technically fall under the definition of "anyone", yes...
          • nonethewiser 1 hour ago
            Not just technically. Also in practice. That's the reason cited for the sanctions. Seems reasonable.
            • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
              it would be more reasonable, maybe, if the sanctions weren't primarily being used for the anti-encryption, anti-privacy crusade.
        • Ar-Curunir 16 minutes ago
          This entire thread you’ve been talking about the PKK with very little evidence in support.
        • deaux 39 minutes ago
          Does AWS do business with anyone? Like the Israeli government who has been labeled perpetrators of genocide by the UN ~1 year ago because they've killed tens of thousands in Palestine since 2023?
        • 32aGh 1 hour ago
          They should have hosted for Al Qaida and ISIS. Then they would have been invited to the White House and been sprayed with perfume by Trump:

          https://www.israelhayom.com/2025/11/12/donald-trump-ahmed-al...

          "Al-Sharaa, who until recently was known by his alias "al-Julani," was a longtime jihadist who was part of the ranks of organizations associated with al-Qaida and ISIS, and even orchestrated an attack against Israel – milestones that led to his designation as a "Specially Designated Global Terrorist" by the US, with a reward of approximately $10 million for information leading to his capture. President Trump decided to lift the sanctions on al-Sharaa, who has transformed into a political leader following the collapse of the Assad regime in December, when he assumed Syria's presidency as the leader of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham."

        • mrtesthah 1 hour ago
          Is that more, or less, than the 1.2 million people Musk has killed so far with the illegal dismantlement of USAID? Musk aggressively advocates for the forcible ethnic cleansing of Europe.

          I see people posting links to x.com which he uses to promote those views as well as platform other hate groups calling for violence and genocide against immigrants, trans people, etc.

          Do acts gain moral validity under color of law alone?

          • Mythli 52 minutes ago
            well USAID where I live finances regime changes and I guess these are very net negative in terms of lives killed.

            You see it everywhere.

            • moron129 30 minutes ago
              Don't worry, the regime change part of USAID has been moved directly to Rubio in the State Department. Only the aid part has been removed.
  • gnuplustoejam 9 minutes ago
    Remember when HN was cheering on wiping Parler from the Internet via App Store manipulation, justified by vague "TOS" violations?
  • collabs 2 hours ago
    For those like me who don't have context, here is the New York Times article on this recent news / event

    https://archive.fo/e8Gss

    > The State Department on Wednesday designated three groups based in Europe, including two that advocate Palestinian rights, as transnational terrorist organizations.

    > The move is part of the Trump administration’s fight against what it calls a “resurgence of far-left political terrorism” worldwide, a focus that many security experts say is disproportionate.

    > In a statement, the department said that it would impose sanctions on Palestine Action, which is based in Britain and organizes acts of support for Palestinians and opposition to Israeli policies; Masar Badil, another pro-Palestinian group with branches in Western Europe and Canada; and Autistici/Inventati, known as A/I Collective, which is based in Italy and offers free digital tools to leftist activists around the world.

    a/I collective in the OP is the third on this list.

    > based in Italy and offers free digital tools to leftist activists around the world

    • graemep 41 minutes ago
      Palestine Action has been designated a terrorist group in the UK as well after sabotaging military aircraft (the article says they sprayed paint, but does not say it was sprayed inside jet engines, rendering them inoperable). Masar Badil supports "armed struggle". One of the other groups ("hammer") recently designated a terrorist group (and linked to A/I Collective in another article I read ) got its name by attacking people in Germany with hammers.

      Designating A/I Collective a terrorist group is different as it is not directly supporting violence, but it is providing free services to people who do, and it says it provides services to groups its aim is to "provide support exclusively to individuals or groups we feel we have an affinity with.". On the other hand their terms forbid "military use" which is broadly defined enough to rule out terrorism.

      I think its likely they do have sympathy for violent groups, n the other hand, unless they have been going out of their way to support violence in some way I do not see reasonable grounds for banning them. Lots of commercial services have dodgy users. My fear is that is is heading in the direction of "if you do not hand info to the US authorities on demand you will be deemed a terrorist"

      • deaux 37 minutes ago
        > I think its likely they do have sympathy for violent groups

        The US regime is an extremely violent group, so I that's certainly the issue.

    • galonk 1 hour ago
      Thank you! Kind of nuts they posted this with that title but no explanation.
  • grim_io 1 hour ago
    I guess bombing them got some pushback.

    Everyone's a terrorist nowadays.

  • ChrisArchitect 1 hour ago
    Related discussions:

    US sanctions Italian hosting provider Autistici Inventati

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49451343

    US Government designates host of noblogs.org a "global terrorist"

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49464391

  • ChrisArchitect 1 hour ago
    Actual link: https://cavallette.noblogs.org/2026/08/10076

    Title: A Statement by A/I Collective About US Sanctions

  • AndrewKemendo 2 hours ago
    Seems like a great organization

    Streisand effect at work again

  • subvol 1 hour ago
    seems like PIR (the .org registry) now also suspended their main domain: https://www.whois.com/whois/autistici.org (it is on serverHold)
  • mindslight 1 hour ago
    Keep in mind we're talking about communications services here, and one focusing on political speech at that.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    In general I think the free lunch of centrally hosted services and persistent doxxable identities is nearing a close. It was inevitable that governments would meddle more, and more, and more - implicitly treating communications are something other than speech due to how encompassing the digital world has become - and now here we are.

    • GolfPopper 1 hour ago
      The current United States government is very keen on pushing the idea that there is a vast and shadowy international left-wing conspiracy waging war on it.

      This is, to be clear, lying nonsense.

      • mrguyorama 1 minute ago
        And despite it being transparent garbage, millions of Americans are eagerly lapping up Red Scare 2.0
  • mmaunder 1 hour ago
    When an organization is intentionally vague about what they do, it’s usually a red flag.
    • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
      the first few sentences of this link, and their about page, and their services page all make it clear what they do. i am unsure of where you confusion comes from.
    • mrtesthah 1 hour ago
      They host blogs and digital infrastructure for autonomous anarchist/leftist collectives and are deeply connected to global free speech movements since their founding in 2001. If you expect to see a two sentence mission statement or a product summary, you’re going to be disappointed.
      • mmaunder 1 hour ago
        [flagged]
        • adjejmxbdjdn 1 hour ago
          From HN guidelines:

          > Off topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

          So you’re incorrect. HN isn’t off bounds for all political posts, but yes, they do have to have an “interesting new phenomenon”.

          The U.S. sanctioning a decades old technology collective is clearly new. Whether it’s “interesting” I can’t speak to because that’s subjective to every individual, but that’s where the useful voting system comes in.

        • InsideOutSanta 1 hour ago
          > For the majority of organizations one can tell what they do in a few seconds

          Have you ever opened the website of any B2B software/services provider? By your logic, they're all the most suspicious people on earth, because none of them seem to be able to explain what they actually do.

        • drngdds 1 hour ago
          There's an "About" link on the top of the page and if you click it it fully explains what they do and for who in the first sentence of the first paragraph.

          You're getting a negative response because ignoring that and implying that they're secretly doing sketchy things makes it look like you're doing bad faith criticism

        • mrtesthah 1 hour ago
          Reason.com is political. EFF.org is political. Anti-ChatControl sites are political. Do you flag those, too? If not, why not?
    • epolanski 1 hour ago
      They aren't?

      They are very clearly providing IT support for free to anti fascist organizations.

  • hamburga 1 hour ago
    As far as I can tell, there were no credible criminal charges against this group, except that they are effective organizers on the opposite side of political spectrum. In the White House’s deranged logic, this qualifies them to be officially designated as domestic terrorists [1].

    Can we all agree that this is an assault on the First Amendment?

    [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/desi...

    • nonethewiser 4 minutes ago
      > In the White House’s deranged logic, this qualifies them to be officially designated as domestic terrorists.

      The US claims they were providing services to the PKK which has been a designated terrorist organization in the EU, UK, and US for 20+ years (predating 9/11 even in the US).

      >Can we all agree that this is an assault on the First Amendment?

      No. There is already a law that you cant knowingly provide material support (including services) that has been upheld by the Supreme Court https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/561/1.

    • CMay 28 minutes ago
      I don't know, but they did say a month or two ago that they discovered Iran pivoted from funding their normal terrorist groups in the west since the US and EU cracked down on it so hard domestically, to funding more radical leftist groups since politicians were turning a blind eye to them.

      Given the timing around putting economic pressure on Iran, I'm assuming that they had some financial connection to Iran.

  • shadowtree 13 minutes ago
    Pendulum in full swing. "Far-Right" groups have been sanctioned, de-banked, doxxed globally for the last 20 years. Now it is hitting the "far-left".

    Fascism is reaction - Benito Mussolini.

    • OKRainbowKid 2 minutes ago
      Anti-fascism is reaction to fascism, it's in the name, even.
  • rvz 1 hour ago
    > Our financial strategy relies exclusively on voluntary donations.

    That is not a sustainable strategy in the long term. Sure after this news they will get lots of donations, but long term it is not something that is realistic.

    Since they are now "sanctioned" by the US you cannot legally donate to them even if you wanted to...*[0]

    [0] *Unless you now know why this collective needs crypto more than ever.

    • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
      >That is not a sustainable strategy in the long term

      they've been around 25 years, which is nothing to sneeze at

  • JohnTHaller 58 minutes ago
    Given administration's obsession with Antifa being in the room with them at all times, it's impossible to take anything they say in relation to this as even close to factual.
  • tokai 1 hour ago
    Maybe they should try couping the Italian government, rename themselves to Ragazzi Orgogliosi. That should help.
  • aeon_ai 2 hours ago
    https://cavallette.noblogs.org/2026/08/10076 - Direct link to the sanctions declaration.

    The actual Treasury Announce here - https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sb0616/

    "The Autistici Inventati is an Italy-based far-left organization that provides a range of technological tools and services to violent left-wing extremist groups, including website hosting on foreign servers, encrypted email accounts, chat and video conferencing, and digital architecture associated with its “Noblogs” platform. Autistici Inventati identifies itself as an “anti-fascist” and “anti-militarist” organization opposed to capitalism and exclusively provides its services to vetted individuals, collectives, and groups it perceives to be aligned with its ideology, including to sanctioned terrorist organizations such as the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which has been designated by the United States, United Kingdom, and European Union for its use of terrorist tactics leading to thousands of deaths in Türkiye, Iraq, and Syria since its establishment in 1984.

    Autistici Inventati is being designated pursuant to E.O. 13224, as amended, for having materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support for, or goods and services to or in support of, an act of terrorism."

    • 32ikU 1 hour ago
      How quaint. The MEK (Iranian People's Mudjahheddin) were designated as a terrorist organization but collected money in EU streets all the time. Now they are useful against Khamenei.

      The US would also like to use the equivalent of the PKK in the large Kurdish part of Iran against Khamenei.

      Nothing to say of using the PKK rebranding of SDF in Syria as well as receiving "global terrorist" Al Jolani in the White House.

  • epolanski 1 hour ago
    What does it entail, in practice?

    They are sanctioned, okay, and? What happens practically.

    • apopapo 30 minutes ago
      They will become pariahs financially speaking. Nobody will be authorized to wire money to/from them. It's brutal.
    • actionfromafar 38 minutes ago
    • tokai 1 hour ago
      Anything between having their google profiles deleted to abducted and tortured at a CIA blacksite.
      • john_strinlai 1 hour ago
        in this case, it mostly means trouble getting money, as they are funded via donations
    • criddell 1 hour ago
      The consequences may include the loss of:

        • Bank accounts and payment processing.
        • U.S.-linked donations and fundraising services.
        • Hosting, cloud infrastructure and upstream network services.
        • Domain registration and related technical services.
        • Certificate, security and email-delivery accounts.
        • Software and communications services.
        • Relationships with non-U.S. providers frightened by American secondary   sanctions.
        • Access for people in the United States who currently use A/I’s services.
      
      https://www.wewillfreeus.org/the-server-called-paranoia-defe...
      • mrtesthah 1 hour ago
        My question now is whether European hosting providers sprouting up in the face of the US CLOUD act will step up to provide those services.
  • CurbStomper 2 hours ago
    [dead]
  • joemazerino 57 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • izolate 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
    • gverrilla 37 minutes ago
      Clueless.
    • ninjin 51 minutes ago
      In my experience, groups like this have a fairly hostile relationship to State Communism as well. The Kronstadt rebellion for example is frequently cited [1]. But then you have groupings like Anarchist communists [2], which you would then risk lumping together with the anti-Communism part (not to mention that anti-Communism as a term is usually associated with forces staunchly opposed to people like this). Plus, if you are "only" anti-authoritarian, how do you suggest avoiding getting lumped together with Anarcho-capitalism?

      [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion

      [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism

      Furthermore, these organisations operate in what they perceive to be Fascist and/or Capitalist societies, so why state opposition to something that is not "there" and has been pretty much gone from the global scene for nearly forty years?

      In conclusion, yes, you have a point. But given the reasons above I find it really hard to get worked up over it and Anarchists do not generally get along with Leninists, Stalinists, or Maoists anyway.

    • stonogo 56 minutes ago
      Of fascism, capitalism, and communism, only two are going concerns in these people's lives. If they're going to declare themselves "anti-communist" they might as well also take a strong vocal stance against ghosts and flying cars.
  • kevinthedigger 1 hour ago
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  • ecshafer 1 hour ago
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    • 4MOAisgoodenuf 1 hour ago
      In the United States, your example is explicitly protected by the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. It is the legal defense of arms manufacturers who's product is sold legally and in good faith but is used by a third-party for illegal actions.

      Rather than a vague insinuation that this group has taken some action deserving of economic blackballing, perhaps you could point to some specific action this group has done?

    • forestrywat 1 hour ago
      Which terrorist groups, specifically? And what support are they offering specifically?

      You say provide tools for communication. Presumably that's every communication platform worldwide - almost undoubtably some sort of terrorist has used each of them.

      • ecshafer 53 minutes ago
        They provide services to PKK which is a terrorist group, specifically.
        • dam_jackalopes 23 minutes ago
          The PKK is in the process of disarming. If this decision is based on the PKK specifically, the timing seems strange.
    • sailfast 1 hour ago
      Sure you can. Gun makers do it all the time!
    • tptacek 1 hour ago
      Without judging this or trying to axiomatically derive the logic, I think the claim here is that a/I knowingly and deliberately provides services to the PKK, which the US and the EU designate as a terrorist organization.
      • agentcoops 1 hour ago
        It’s more than that, I think. I read through the various government statements as I was curious about rationale and precedent: the other two groups impacted by the order are rather unambiguous extremists, so understandable. In the extended justification for this a/I group, the US gov lists a large number of US and EU “Antifa” groups that variously leverage their services, including one that the individual recently arrested for wiping his phone is meant to be connected to. It suggests to me this was the result of some considerable network analysis and that the intent is to now have stronger legal tools to go after those groups.

        I think that second (speculative, of course) step would be the more worrying precedent: if the use of technical infrastructure also used by designated groups was formally made to be incriminating/right-waiving. Why wouldn’t that apply to Signal, for example? The OP suggests the dividing line should be between true infrastructure open to all, including unsavory actors, versus tools that advertise services to a particular faction. It’s not an entirely disagreeable distinction, but I think in practice it’s rather fuzzy (Moxie of signal is/was rather far left himself, if I recall).

        EDIT: Re-reading the document, the state department emphasizes that a/I “manually vets all potential users.” OP’s distinction stands for now.

        • tptacek 1 hour ago
          I share most HN'ers priors about this administration and its motives and am commenting positively, not normatively, and only about the specific claim the Treasury Department made.

          Signal doesn't knowingly and deliberately provide services to any organization, let alone one formally designated by the US and the EU. The whole point of Signal is to eliminate all pretenses of the service knowing who its users are or what they're doing. To the extent that's also true of Autistici Inventati, the OFAC designation is invalid.

          • agentcoops 1 hour ago
            Yes, I originally only meant to note that in the extended statement on a/I the PKK isn’t mentioned and the focus is rather on a network of “antifa” groups [0]. With respect to your legal point, I reread the document and we’re in agreement: the state department goes to lengths to demonstrate that a/I “manually vets all potential users.”

            [0] https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/20...

            • tptacek 57 minutes ago
              I feel much more confident saying that regardless of the validity of the underlying legal argument, this administration's messaging (on everything) is unhinged and partisan. I'm purposefully not reading into or out of what they're saying.
      • jasonlotito 1 hour ago
        My understanding is that this is only coming from the US government. Do we have any reliable information to back this up? Because if it's just the US government, I can safely assume it's all lies.
        • tptacek 1 hour ago
          I have no idea, but --- non-normatively --- there is some signal to be gleaned from this particular provider being targeted and not other, better-known and more systemically important ones.
    • cholantesh 1 hour ago
      >They are making and providing tools that enable communication specifically for Far Left groups, some of which are terrorist groups.

      As per a government who puts cycling and expressing distaste for inflation in the same camp.

    • jasonlotito 1 hour ago
      > So I don't think this is as innocent as they seem.

      Well, they are innocent until proven guilty.

      > They are making and providing tools that enable communication specifically for Far Left groups, some of which are terrorist groups.

      By all means, present something that shows they are knowingly supporting terrorist groups so we might judge for ourselves.

      I mean, we have organizations that supported the January 6th terrorists that haven't had anything done to them, so I'm looking for something more serious than murder, storming the capital, riots, attacking the police force, and attempted assassination of a Vice President.